Anybody have this dictionary?

Guest · **Posted:** Sat Oct 19, 2002 4:26 pm

From this week's Time magazine story on singer Faith Hill:"By definition, a diva is a rampaging female ego redeemed only in part by a lovely voice. It's hard to imagine why anyone would want to be one, but a new generation of female talent appears to be weirdly enamored of the word and the idea."I've checked nine dictionaries so far, and none of them give a definition ANYTHING like this ....

Wayne Countryman · **Posted:** Sat Oct 19, 2002 5:20 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Jim Thomsen:
From this week's Time magazine story on singer Faith Hill:"By definition, a diva is a rampaging female ego redeemed only in part by a lovely voice. It's hard to imagine why anyone would want to be one, but a new generation of female talent appears to be weirdly enamored of the word and the idea."I've checked nine dictionaries so far, and none of them give a definition ANYTHING like this ....<hr></blockquote>it's a slow saturday at work, so ... this entails a degree or two of separation, and challenges the term "By definition" in the badly written example ... but, from the online OED, we have this:DIVA
[It. diva goddess, lady-love, ‘fine lady’: L. d va goddess, female divinity, fem. of d vus divine, god, deity.]
A distinguished female singer, a prima donna. PRIMA DONNA
1. The first or principal female singer in an opera. Also prima donna assoluta [It., lit. = absolute], a prima donna of outstanding excellence.
2. transf. and fig. A person of the highest standing in a particular field or activity; one who behaves in a self-important or temperamental manner. Given how little most Americans know about opera, the second definition became better known and more frequently used -- at least by folks of a certain age. That seems to be changing, though, with the pejorative connotation fading.

Guest · **Posted:** Sat Oct 19, 2002 9:36 pm

Well, that's as big a stretch as Anna Nicole Smith trying to fit into her high school cheerleader's outfit ... but I'll buy it. Nice bit o' research, by the way.

Rio · **Posted:** Sun Oct 20, 2002 12:27 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Jim Thomsen:
Well, that's as big a stretch as Anna Nicole Smith trying to fit into her high school cheerleader's outfit ... but I'll buy it. Nice bit o' research, by the way.<hr></blockquote>You're too generous, Jim. It's way too much of a stretch, and I'm not buying it a minute. You were right to question's Time's illiteracy in the first place.Wayne, I too give you give you credit for putting your down time at work to good use. (Better use than I usually would under the same circumstances!) But the OED perhaps wasn't the best source. The familiar Webster's dictionary of American English doesn't support this "prima donna/diva" connection one bit.

Wayne Countryman · **Posted:** Sun Oct 20, 2002 12:57 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Gary Kirchherr:
But the OED perhaps wasn't the best source. The familiar Webster's dictionary of American English doesn't support this "prima donna/diva" connection one bit.<hr></blockquote>Right. I don't rely on the OED as a reference on the job or at home -- was just killing time, and that was the first dictionary I checked other than the Webster's New World Collegiate on my office desk.For what it's worth, the New Oxford American Dictionary skips "prima donna" and goes straight to defining a "diva" as one of those unpleasant female singers.To me, this word is dead, except for stories about opera.

dmfugitive · **Posted:** Sun Oct 20, 2002 1:50 am

Left unsaid is that any hack who leans on the "Webster's-defines-XXX-as" crutch needs to have it kicked out from under him or her.

Rio · **Posted:** Sun Oct 20, 2002 12:41 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by dmfugitive:
Left unsaid is that any hack who leans on the "Webster's-defines-XXX-as" crutch needs to have it kicked out from under him or her.<hr></blockquote>Good point.In fact, perhaps AP should just stop using Webster's New World College Dictionary altogether, and replace it with Webster's New World Speller/Divider. The latter certainly is smaller and cheaper. And it would be useless as a crutch to copy-editing hacks who need the definition of a word.Given some of the previous threads in this forum, one can see that many copy editors are quite comfortable just making up their own definitions anyway.

dmfugitive · **Posted:** Sun Oct 20, 2002 10:37 pm

Sigh. I was making a reference to writers who use "Webster's defines XXX as" -- or a variation thereof -- in their copy. That's the crutch.

Rio · **Posted:** Mon Oct 21, 2002 2:04 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by dmfugitive:
Sigh. I was making a reference to writers who use "Webster's defines XXX as" -- or a variation thereof -- in their copy. That's the crutch.<hr></blockquote>Oh.

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