Testy Copy Editors

Our new website is up and running at testycopyeditors.org. This board will be maintained as an archive. Please visit the new site and register. Direct questions to the proprietor, blanp@testycopyeditors.org
It is currently Fri May 10, 2024 10:14 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 23 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: ACES
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2002 7:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 8342
Location: Bethesda, Md.
This year's ACES conference begins Thursday in Louisville. I think I'll arrive a little late to get in on this session:<p>"Ninety minutes of knee-slapping, gut-splitting education, introspection and practice in using the Maestro Concept, an innovative approach to story planning and newsroom organization that has changed the way newspapers operate here and abroad. Presenters Buck Ryan, the original maestro, and Tim Harrower, a design original, join forces for the first time in a tag team that would make even the biggest WWF hulk smell the pavement."<p>***Is this necessary?***<p>"Wondering how you can make more of a difference from a copy editor’s chair? This workshop will help you learn how to channel your content ideas into useful visual elements that will amaze and delight readers (not to mention assigning editors). Though hands-on exercises, you will learn about Reader Magnets and the three levels of visual 'sidebars.'"<p>***I always thought .... Nah, too easy.***<p>[ April 23, 2002: Message edited by: blanp ]</p>


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2002 9:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 485
Location: San Jose, CA
ACES: a clever way for copy editors to hop on the "take a quickie vacation on the company dime by going to a conference" gravy train.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2002 9:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 1399
Location: In the newsroom
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Helvetica ,sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tom mangan:
ACES: a clever way for copy editors to hop on the "take a quickie vacation on the company dime by going to a conference" gravy train.<hr></blockquote><p>LOL! Poking around on the Web site is always fun; the errors alone are worth the time. And they take themselves so seriously...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2002 10:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 485
Location: San Jose, CA
ACES arose in response to a legitimate concern, that within newsrooms copy editors make up an oppressed minority nobody knows quite what to make of, or what to do with. The certainty that they are restive, disgruntled, angry at the world in general and newspaper management specifically creates an urgency to "do something," particularly at a time when the j-schools have all the reporting students they need, but nobody wants to be a copy editor. <p>Because it's outside the realm of possibility to accord extra pay, perks and status to copy editors (we are, after all, THOSE PEOPLE, and unfit for equal status with the real journalists) to keep them in the biz, things like ACES need to be created to give them a place to gather and stew in their collective juices, let off steam, and perhaps distract them from the true source of their woes.<p> ACES is fine as far as it goes, but I haven't seen anything in my pay or perks to reflect that it's doing much for copy editors, except making them even more skilled, which in a way is a bit of a ripoff considering the boss types are getting better work for the same pay.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2002 3:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 8342
Location: Bethesda, Md.
I have been a member of ACES since its inception, and I have attended all of its conferences except the one in California last year. I think it's a good organization and I have always found useful programs at the conferences. There is, however, an undercurrent of goofiness in ACES parallel to the strong nonsense movement in the industry. This can easily be ignored, or, in some cases, ridiculed gently. My favorite example of ACES silliness happened at the first conference, in Chapel Hill, N.C., in 1997. It was suggested at a session on copy-desk morale that it might cheer up the editors to lay coffee mugs on them.<p>[ April 24, 2002: Message edited by: blanp ]</p>


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2002 11:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 8342
Location: Bethesda, Md.
Among the opening sessions was the predictable discussion of handling "sensitive language" in news stories. You know, words like "fuck" and "nigger." Of course this should be just a matter of common sense but every newspaper has a cadre of people whose sole function is to make a major production out of everything. One copy editor from a Midwest state capital described her newspaper's page-and-a-half written policy, which calls for nasty words to be written with the first word and the "precise" number of hyphens representing the rest of the word's letters. The moderator correctly pointed out that this invites the reader to play Hangman. No one pointed out that this is treating readers like children, which we seem to like to do. I don't think it serves any purpose to litter copy with nasty words, but neither do I think it's good editing to bend over backwards to avoid them. And, of course, I think we spend way too much time worrying about it.
Also not mentioned was the offensive and annoying use of the "-word" construction, as in "He said the f-word!" That, folks, is baby talk and I didn't even allow baby talk in my household when my son was a baby.<p>--
I passed up the opportunity to heckle "Buck" Ryan, creator of the notorious "Maestro Concept," in favor of a nap.<p>[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: blanp ]</p>


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 485
Location: San Jose, CA
I think of we posted people's cusswords they might be a little more careful in their word choice in the future. <p>I have to admit that despite having uttered the word "fuck" about a million times I still don't really like seeing it in print. For instance, I don't think I've used it more than a time or two in six years of postings at my website.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2002 8:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 8342
Location: Bethesda, Md.
This afternoon at ACES:
The group held its "plenary session," and the publisher of the host paper (Louisville Courier-Journal) delivered welcoming remarks. I had to leave, however, because he began by telling us that the copy desk is the most important part of the paper. It was too soon after my nap to endure patronization.
An afternoon session was devoted to general complaints from rim editors. Nearly the entire 90 minutes was taken up with a discussion of what to do about other copy editors who come in late and spend all their time doing personal stuff on the Internet. The participants went around and around on this until I was forced to point out that what other copy editors do is none of your business, and, if you're really concerned about it, public ridicule is often effective ("Well, look who's here. It's Ms. Twenty Minutes Late Every Day.") There also was some chat about what to do when the slot changes your headline. There wasn't enough time for me to say that you should never complain about what the slot does to your headline, unless it is changed to make it wrong. If you're relatively inexperienced and want to learn, you might ask the slot after deadline why your headline was changed. But usually, the answer is something like, "I like mine better." So move on with your life.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2002 11:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 485
Location: San Jose, CA
Wasn't there an Ann Landers column that advised how other people conduct their careers is nobody's business but their own? <p>If not there should've been. I have a hard enough time reconciling my own failings without having to account for everyone else's as well.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2002 7:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 5
Location: York, Pennsylvania
Headline-changing is pretty much out here without explicitly going to the person who wrote it, telling them what your problem is with them, making a better suggestion, and having them agree with your suggestion -- a system that I'm wholly in favor of, especially considering two things. First, we have a six-person desk, including the slot, at the most. Why NOT go back and ask that person? Second, I have had headlines of mine changed where they've either become factually incorrect or just inappropriate in tone for the story. One that comes to mind is a story on a local college's graduation that, for the first, time, required security checks before entrance. After posting a serious, news-lede headline, I awoke the next morning to "Mortarboards and metal detectors" -- and proceeded to raise hell with the news editor that evening. It hasn't happened since.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2002 1:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 8342
Location: Bethesda, Md.
On Friday morning, an editor from the Chicago Tribune conducted a session called "Convergence and the Editing Process." This turned out to be about how the Tribune moves material from newspaper to Web site to WGN-TV to CLTV (a local cable channel). I was pleased to see that the buzz word one might expect to be associated with such affairs, "synergy," was not applied to these arrangements because the flow of material is, in fact, one-way: from the newspaper, rarely back to it. That's because we are, thankfully, some time away from when a television reporter files a "story" and it is published in the newspaper. Imagine that. <p>Does all this exposure make more people newspaper readers? No one can prove that it does. A big story from the newspaper really can't be told on television, so what's really being done is that the newspaper story is promoted on the television show. The use of the Internet to dump the contents of the newspaper online are fine, as is the inclusion of supplementary material (transcripts, maps, and so forth), but with the exception of breaking news -- which, on most sites, is handled with unedited wire copy -- newspaper Web sites really don't add anything to the newspaper-reading experience. Many sites have popular features such as "chats" with reporters and editors, but for the most part those cover material that is or should be covered in news stories and are wastes of time.<p>One copy editor left the session after the leader decribed what a pain in the ass Gene Siskel was in the last three years of his life. "I mean, he's dead!" the annoyed copy editor told me.<p>
Earlier, a "reader representative" for the Hartford Courant talked about her job, which consists mainly of fielding complaints from the tiny minority of readers who are motivated, usually for political reasons or out of ignorance, to call. Ombudsmen are fine to the extent that the keep the public out of the hair of people who are trying to get some work done.<p>On Friday afternoon, State Department spokesman Philip Reeker presided over the head-scratcher session called "The War on Terrorism: Crisis Communication Sept. 11 and Beyond." No one I spoke with could figure out why Reeker was there. I can't say much about his session because I left after his story about being trapped in a basement in Macedonia. Attendees later told me that the program consisted mostly of Reeker describing what he did on Sept. 11, which was not helpful or particularly interesting. He did reveal that the government is considering giving cash prizes to people who turn in terrorists, with the implication that newspapers ought to help promote the program. This guy clearly deserved some heckling but the polite members of ACES did not deliver.<p>Saturday morning, a group of Louisville-area Arabs, Arab-Americans and Muslims talked about how the media were giving their people a hard time, especially since Sept. 11. They all see bias toward Israel in the U.S. media, a view that is largely justified. None of this should come as any surprise to any reasonably well-informed editor, but I suppose it was a valuable lesson for folks whose knowledge of Arabic culture is limited to a Ray Stevens novelty song.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2002 12:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 485
Location: San Jose, CA
OK, at this point I confess to being a smartass who dismissed ACES conferences with a facile rhetorical brush-off. <p>But the tone of what I'm hearing is not something I'd print out and hand to my boss in defense of his sending me to next year's confab.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2002 8:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 8342
Location: Bethesda, Md.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Helvetica ,sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tom mangan:
OK, at this point I confess to being a smartass who dismissed ACES conferences with a facile rhetorical brush-off. <p>But the tone of what I'm hearing is not something I'd print out and hand to my boss in defense of his sending me to next year's confab.<hr></blockquote><p>Of course, that's not my intent. ACES itself will accentuate the positive. I'm simply sharing some of the lowlights. <p>I have been to five of the six ACES conferences. The just-concluded 2002 edition was the second-best of them, after the first one in Chapel Hill. Next year the conference is in Chicago and I'll be there too. Despite all my snotty remarks, I recommend that you join us.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2002 9:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 485
Location: San Jose, CA
well, it would give me an excuse to go back to the midwest & maybe visit the folks down in ol' Peoria.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2002 1:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 8342
Location: Bethesda, Md.
Image<p> Knight Ridder had the audacity to put that brochure on the distribution table.
The inside copy is even worse.
"If the newspaper were a coffee bar, the copy desk would be a shot of espresso," the brochure says (If the copywriter wanted to use a lame metaphor, wouldn't the filter basket on the coffee maker be more apt? Never mind.).
"The thrill of hitting the deadline with something great--and then turning around and doing it again--makes copy editing one of the most exciting jobs in journalism," it says.
Some Knight Ridder newspapers have outstanding copy desks. I would like to think that the outstanding editors who run them had nothing to do with that brochure.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2002 10:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 485
Location: San Jose, CA
Well, at least the bullseye is appropriate. <p>I think it's correct that the buzz of battling deadline is part of the appeal of copy editing, but that matters only if you're the sort who thrives on working in a high-pressure atmosphere every day.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 38
I do like the idea of Reader Magnets, though. Think about it. Increase newspaper readership by magnetizing the newspaper so that it sticks to someone's buttons or purses or something.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2002 6:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 5
From the ACES Web site:
"Pisetzner, of the Newark (N.J.) Star-Ledger, offered advice on when copy chiefs should polish heads that aren't quite right and how to do it without missing deadline."
Phillip, did you or Bill attend this session?
If so, I'd love to know more. I was not aware polishing heads that aren't quite right was a when/if thing (except perhaps 15 minutes before deadline), and certainly not for a copy chief.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2002 3:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 76
Location: NJ
Actually, I've worked with Joel Pisetzner. He's a serious, meticulous craftsman (his handwriting has serifs, for god's sake!). If he's rewriting heads now instead of just writing them (which he did well), I'd imagine he isn't passing up any chances to tweak them unless the clock is really running against him.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2002 1:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 1775
Location: Baltimore
I belong to a union to push for better pay and perks and protection from management.<p>I belong to ACES to become a better copy editor.<p>ACES depends on a certain amount of corporate support -- financial and otherwise -- to exist. If it tried to be a union, it would lose corporate support.<p>We're better off with the organization concentrating on improving skills and non-monetary recognition of copy editors; if we want better pay and perks, we need better unions.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Helvetica ,sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tom mangan:<p>ACES arose in response to a legitimate concern, that within newsrooms copy editors make up an oppressed minority nobody knows quite what to make of, or what to do with. The certainty that they are restive, disgruntled, angry at the world in general and newspaper management specifically creates an urgency to "do something," particularly at a time when the j-schools have all the reporting students they need, but nobody wants to be a copy editor. <p>Because it's outside the realm of possibility to accord extra pay, perks and status to copy editors (we are, after all, THOSE PEOPLE, and unfit for equal status with the real journalists) to keep them in the biz, things like ACES need to be created to give them a place to gather and stew in their collective juices, let off steam, and perhaps distract them from the true source of their woes.<p> ACES is fine as far as it goes, but I haven't seen anything in my pay or perks to reflect that it's doing much for copy editors, except making them even more skilled, which in a way is a bit of a ripoff considering the boss types are getting better work for the same pay.<hr></blockquote>


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2002 1:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 1775
Location: Baltimore
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Helvetica ,sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by blanp:
This afternoon at ACES:
The group held its "plenary session," and the publisher of the host paper (Louisville Courier-Journal) delivered welcoming remarks. I had to leave, however, because he began by telling us that the copy desk is the most important part of the paper. It was too soon after my nap to endure patronization.

An afternoon session was devoted to general complaints from rim editors. Nearly the entire 90 minutes was taken up with a discussion of what to do about other copy editors who come in late and spend all their time doing personal stuff on the Internet. The participants went around and around on this until I was forced to point out that what other copy editors do is none of your business, and, if you're really concerned about it, public ridicule is often effective ("Well, look who's here. It's Ms. Twenty Minutes Late Every Day.") There also was some chat about what to do when the slot changes your headline. There wasn't enough time for me to say that you should never complain about what the slot does to your headline, unless it is changed to make it wrong. If you're relatively inexperienced and want to learn, you might ask the slot after deadline why your headline was changed. But usually, the answer is something like, "I like mine better." So move on with your life.
<hr></blockquote><p>I too was annoyed by the host publisher. Expected to see applications for work on his staff to be passed out.<p>i attended that session (mentioned above) on rim editors' problems. the complaints heard of people arriving late, leaving early and goofing off in between struck a chord for many, including those of us who've foolishly done more than our share of work to make up for the slacking and suffered physical injury doing it.<p>blanp's suggestion of fighting back with scorn was a good one. in the absence of conscientious supervision by managers, rimmers need to stand up for themselves one way or another. scorn is a simple, often effective way. to a lesser extent, for those too shy to speak up or attack a teacher's pet, so is a cold shoulder.<p>but although i usually don't want to know my co-workers' business, i disagree that i should ignore it if my work or health suffer because of it.<p>my suggestion, as someone who's done more slotting than rimming over the past decade without ever being a boss, was to have slots assign stories -- with the lazy getting hit with an inordinate number of crappy ones. to complain about this sets one up for a slam. a rimmer once whined about having to read a lot of these. my response: i'm the slot, so i have to read ALL of this. do your share and get over it.<p>i agree again with blanp that the slot is the boss as far as heds go, and that asking why yours got changed is appropriate only after deadline. a good slot will have a good reason that might be instructive.<p>[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: Wayne Countryman ]</p>


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2002 1:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 1775
Location: Baltimore
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Helvetica ,sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by motelfromhell:
From the ACES Web site:
"Pisetzner, of the Newark (N.J.) Star-Ledger, offered advice on when copy chiefs should polish heads that aren't quite right and how to do it without missing deadline."
Phillip, did you or Bill attend this session?
If so, I'd love to know more. I was not aware polishing heads that aren't quite right was a when/if thing (except perhaps 15 minutes before deadline), and certainly not for a copy chief.
<hr></blockquote><p>i attended this session. all agreed that, because of deadlines, tinkering often must wait for later editions, if you have them. <p>Pisetzner spoke as a rimmer often called upon to improve others' heds -- a point itself for discussion. whether the original hed writer, the slot (who might or might not be a copy chief) or another rimmer should do the rewriting. many said that if the original writer didn't have the opportunity to rewrite, he or she should at least be consulted when time allowed.<p>i raised the issue of rewrites causing errors -- a reason to talk with the rimmer who'd edited the story. <p>other reasons mentioned to talk with the writer of the original hed were the chance to teach, and the belief that not talking was disrespectful.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: ACES
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2002 2:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:01 am
Posts: 1775
Location: Baltimore
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Helvetica ,sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tom mangan:
OK, at this point I confess to being a smartass who dismissed ACES conferences with a facile rhetorical brush-off. <p>But the tone of what I'm hearing is not something I'd print out and hand to my boss in defense of his sending me to next year's confab.<hr></blockquote><p>Yes, tons of BS fly at these conferences (i've attended almost as many as blanp), but if you know when to duck and high-step they're worthwhile.<p>one learns when to take naps (again, blanp shows his wisdom) or get out into the city. also, you should ask around about sessions, workshops and "presesnters" in advance, because the descriptions in the programs seldom are complete. <p>believe it or not, many people attend without their employers' financial support. those who do get compensated can return with handouts from sessions (whether they attend the sessions or not). <p>some employers send folks to ACES conferences because of the relatively cheap training provided, which can be passed along to the rest of the staff. other employers expect staffers to look for applicants or prospective guest trainers.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 23 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

What They're Saying




Useful Links